Okay, this is a draft version that I'll post here so people can respond to it and say how they like it. Seeing how Mzurk passed on the honor of being guild leader to me (in other words, he chickened out), I'm gonna write this up. It contains the basics of what our guild stands for, what our short term and longer term goals are, and what the basic internal structure is like.

Guild Philosophy
I think it is extremely important for any group of people working together to have a clear set of values and goals that tie them together. Ultimately, any relationship between people should be based on mutual value they derive from the relationship, and it is no different for a guild in WoW.

Because guilds come in many different shapes and sizes in this game, I want to specify here what kind of guild I want us to be (and I hope everyone else agrees. If you don't, feel free to bring up a point of contention for discussion).

I already specified the first such value. I don't agree with the belief that players should put in a lot of time and effort to make the guild as such better. Ultimately, the reason we all play this game is because we love doing so, and your enjoyment of playing is probably what drives you to invest so much time and energy into in game activities. Getting better gear and doing raids is one way in which you can further that end, but it shouldn't become an end in itself.

Having said that, you should realize that what you get out of a guild is directly related to what you invest in it, which is at it should be. In that sense, attending a lot of raids and investing a lot of time into getting better gear and going to heroic instances is a good thing, but it should never outshadow the reason you play in the first place.

Now, I think the single most important quality a player can have is that he knows what he is doing. Excelling at what you do is an extremely important and good quality, no matter what activity. It applies as much to WoW as it does to any other action you might take in your day to day life. I think it is a false dichotomy to make an alternative between either slacking off and enjoying yourself or turning playing into a job.

What I want is that people take the game seriously to a sufficient extent that they learn how to play their class and put in enough effort to become really great at what they do. In my opinion, it sucks to be bad at something and I would never enjoy any activity I wasn't also at least quite decent at. I think that is the same way for most of us here. There are many people around in the game who don't want to play like that at all, but this is simply not the place for them.

If you want to be in this guild I think you should do everything in your power to become better. You shouldn't be afraid to try new things if you think they might actually work better than what you are already comfortable with, because there is simply no such thing as good enough. I want you to keep an active mind when you are playing and pay attention to what happens, and always be open to the possibility that you could learn a valuable lesson that day. I think that ultimately this will only make your gaming experience that much better, because as I said, it sucks to be waaaay at the bottom of the damage list as a dps class, or at the healing done list as a healer.

This is especially crucial in raids because there are so many people involved. Let's face it, time is valuable, and no one likes to waste an entire evening on a failed raid just because someone can't be bothered to play the way they are supposed to. There is nothing wrong with slacking off as such, but you can't do it when you play together with other people and much more depends on how well you perform there.

That brings me to a different point, namely that I think it is primarily everyone's own responsibility that they get at least decent gear before they start raiding. I don't think it is much of an issue right now, because we only took the good players from our previous guild, but it is laughable to go into karazhan with mostly green quest rewards from level 68. One good way to find out where to get loot is to use the armory tool to suggest upgrades, or you can simply ask other people if they know where you can find good upgrades for the slots you need.

In this stage of raiding karazhan, where we will still be figuring out how to do encounters, it is simply not possible to take dead weight with us, so there will be no more hunters doing less damage than the tanks *coughs delicately*. At a later point we might be able to ease up on that requirement when kara is fully on farm status and we could begin to take one or two alts with us to get them gear, but initially I think it it best to set the requirements much more strictly.

That brings me to raid signups. I didn't like the system we had in Blackened because it seemed to be based more on seniority of being in the guild and of signing up early, than on actual skill or performance. Because of that, I will change the signup system somewhat so you can indicate when you are able to raid, and when the raid starts we will decide which classes would be most effective.

There is a lot of leeway in which classes you can take to Kara, so we can be very flexible with that, and we will do our best to rotate as many people as possible so that everyone gets to raid. This last because I know we have more active dps classes than slots, for example. But I do not think that is much of a problem because there are likely to be days some people cannot come, so I think everyone will be able to raid quite a few times a week regardless of their class.

Loot System
We are still discussing the loot system, but I think it is likely that we won't use a purely random rolling method. Right now I'd hesitantly propose to look at each drop seperately and give preference to certain classes and builds if the item is significantly geared towards a certain build. I don't have a problem with people rolling on loot that is not quite optimal for their class, but I think it's kind of stupid for them to do so if someone else would have far more use from that item. Not to mention that it'd be a huge waste if another item drops and the first gets disenchanted a week later.

I think in the longer run that would work out better for everyone, although it does mean that even though something is an upgrade for you you won't be allowed to roll on it until other people who can better utilize it already have it (or are not present).

Goals
I think that in the short run we should primarily focus on finishing Karazhan and gearing up every active player in the guild with loot from that place. Obviously that doesn't prevent you from going PvP or arenas It's just not the focus of the guild.

As we are progressing through Karazhan in the next weeks we should probably try to recruit enough people so that we can start attempting 25 man raids in the longer run. I know it is a very difficult step to go from 10 man raids to 25 man raids, and we might not be able to do those 25 man instances more than once a week at first, but it'll be a good step upwards and it will give us something to look forward to.

However, I think we shouldn't start recruiting too many people in the near future, until it is clear that we are just about finished with karazhan and are ready for the next raids. Of course, if extremely promising applicants apply to us we should grab them

As for this week, I would like to set the goal that by the end of this Karazhan reset we're at least at the point we left in Blackened. That means that in the next days we have to take down Curator, Maiden and Illhoof (I'm not really counting the minor bosses in Opera, that doesn't really count). I would prefer us to finish the Chess Event and Aran as well, because I'm sure we can do it if we coordinate better than we did before.

I think that's it for now. I'll leave the topic open for now so you can post suggestions here, or just state that you agree if you do. At some point when we have agreement on this draft version I will finalize it and lock the topic so prospective members can read it before applying.

Brilliant mate, im sure u knew id agree cause we talked last night but nice to see you investing time into such a well thought out post.
I fully agree with all ponts here and im sure others will

Very nice input Iltarna
I couldn't have said it better

Well thought out and really well written.

We have basically achieved to the point where we were at with blackened, and went a step further in my opinion. I think we can safely say now that it was the right desicion to part ways with them and do it on our own, as the raid tonight was far more efficient and felt far more relaxed to anything we ever did with Blackened.

Hopefully it will continue and see us clear karazhan within the coming weeks.

We've accomplished far more in 2 days of raiding than we did with 3 weeks of raiding with Blackened, im very proud to be part of this guild as I think we have the stuff to go much further in the future, but like you said we just need to take it slowly when it comes to recruiting new people to the guild, making sure we get a quality player who knows how to play their class well over someone who just gets a few items and doesnt have a clue on how to use them.

Good job on the post, its really well written and well thought out. =D